Relief From Cliques
Peter Henne wanted to start a thread related to each group that plays in MVMGC....You know how Manzano and Manzano , Cunningham and Corona always play together...Just like Toler, Perez, Miller, Chaidez, and King play together.....Do we all have the same rules...or do we play our own rules in our own groups?....Does this happen...what can we do about it?....Let's talk shall we.......I am opening up some things for discussion away from a meeting, where a lot of times people do not get to say what they want because it seems no one really listens...They just wait to talk....Kidding of course...But seriously....We need to talk about establishing rules for all groups regardless of who they are.
One of the rules in question in certain groups is ground under repair at Mountain View. There are others...Ill just start with this one and everyone needs to feel free to post all of your Bitches here and get them out....Anonymously or leave your name...But get them out!
Ground under repair is definetly defined in the rule book...see Doug's Previous Post for the outline....I was told that at Mountain View that Mr. Corona is not going to spray paint all of the Ground Under Repair all of the time and that any bare ground that is in proximity to cart paths on any hole, or areas that carts frequently travel by carts is to be considered abnormal course conditions and treated as ground under repair...WOW that make sense!...Seems pretty logical to me...NOT SO FAST! ...I know what is going to happen next...we are all going to start digging into the rule book and tell me why I am wrong...that is fine...let's just get all of the info out so everyone knows it and no one is Bitching anymore! Lets all play by the same rules! Or establish local rules that everyone is playing by....We are the committe..we can establish our own rules within reason...& I want to let you know.....THIS IS WITHIN REASON!
An area where carts drive that is absent of a few stones is still in fact A CART PATH!
If we cant agree on this we should all turn in our golf clubs and instead become Mountain View Men's Debate Club....are we all that devoid of common sense? Are we putting such a premium on a club whose average handicap is over 18....that's bogey golf fellas....that we are going to make a guy hit off of bare ass dirt just because the Golf Superintendent is working with a limited budget and is not going to commit his resources to spray paint.....GIMMIE A BREAK!
Posted by TOLER....buy me a beer and we will talk about my view!
posted by MVMGC @ 10:09 PM
10 comments
10 Comments:
WOW! A "birdie" to start the round of debate!
Help...I'm talking...and I can't Shut up!
Be right Back...I need another beer!
Well, Ralph is the one who brought this up at the meeting due to witnessing some players taking advantage of the situation. I recall being told about the dirt cart paths (but not about the thin lies). Ralph cannot play in every group to offer guidance. It seems that some players are also taking drops from any area with a thin or crappy lie, under the guise of "it should be ground under repair". Since this appears to be subjective, depending on the group or player, he would like to establish fairness for all. We are playing "skins" for $$$ and he thought the best way to solve it would be to "play it as it lies." I called the SCGA to explain our situation (dirt cart path, bare lies, etc. due to lack of budget) and get their input. They said that according to the rules (Rule 24/9, dealing with cart paths), it should be played as it lies. The one thing about a local rule is, they cannot superceed the Rules of Golf. We don't always like or agree with them, (maybe that's why we don't want to learn them), but if everyone plays by the same rules, then we eliminate advantage. I suggest that ALL players take time to read and learn the Rules of Golf, that way when you choose an option that is available, you use the proper method for taking relief and don't have to be questioned or accused of cheating later. I constantly see players taking relief from a condition which they are entlitled to, only to take an improper drop or not take the "NEAREST" point of relief. Taking a drop does not entitle one to a clear path to the hole, but only relief from the condition. What this means is, you need to establish if taking relief is the best option, before you pick up your ball.
So let me get this straight...I crush a drive on number 4....my ball ends up on the cart path leading up to the cement next to number 5 tee box where at least a million carts have passed making it impossible to grow grass...not the cement mind you but the eight feet leading up to that path...because it has no rocks in that area you would have me play it from the bare dirt?
That is a pretty unfair situation....I know...you will tell me the solution is to not try to go for the green since I know that there is a posiibilty that I could end up on that dirt area right?
I know the rules of golf...Dont accuse me of not wanting to learn them...I just think that logic should be applied in this situation....just because there are no rocks on a cart path doesn't make it any less of a cart path...
I can see that I am wasting my breath...I know the "old guard" will win out on this one which is fine...as long as everyone plays it as it lies that is fine...
When enough people hurt their wrists from hitting off of packed dirt maybe we can change the rule...In the mean time I will beat the crap out of a $1200 set of irons for the sake of winning $25
Gimmie a Break!
By the way ...if you "constantly see players taking relief from a condition which they are entlitled to, only to take an improper drop or not take the "NEAREST" point of relief"....you should disqualify yourself too for not reporting the improper relief...Give back all of the money you have ever won ...skins or otherwise...Play by the rules.
HELP! I can't tell if its the beer or if Matt has taken contol of Mike's computer.
My response was not directed at you. It was for everyone, and is only an opinion, just like yours.
Since we opened this thread to bring up subjects that need discussion, let it play out.
If you read ALL of the previous post, its directed at the players that are taking ADVANTAGE of the situation. We are trying to make sure everyone is playing it the same way. When money becomes involved, some people want to stretch the rules. Since I don't play in a specific group all of the time, I have had people say "take a drop" and others say "play it." Who's right? If you take a drop when someone thinks you should play it as it lies, then they think you are cheating.
If players were ONLY taking relief from the bare dirt cart paths or such, I doubt Ralph would have even brought the subject up at the meeting.
Where is Peters take?
Does Ralph own a computer?
Do Doug and Mike like each other?
Is Matt taking over Mike's computer?
What Would Jesus Do?
Is Jesus in our club?
Is his last name Perez?
I like Al's eyebrows.
1) PETER, where are you?
2) RALPH doesn't have time for a computer. All he hears is our bitching about the condition of the course, so he's up at 5 AM and working till 8 PM, just to shut us up.
3) I like MIKE and according to MIKE, the only one who doesn't, is his wife.
4) MATT, are you hacking MIKE'S computer?
5) Jesus liked to walk and would not be taking a cart, therefore he would not be causing any of the problems we're having with bare dirt cart paths. Wait, maybe thats the solution. Problem solved. Only people who walk can take a drop off the dirt cart paths, since they are not the ones causing the problem.
6) Jesus is not in our club, however he always leads by example. As mentioned above, he has helped us solve our problem.
7) Historians have estimated Jesus height between 5'11" and 6'2". I'm not sure Perez fits that description. Are you asking because of his miraculous golf shots?
8)I'm sure that if you ask Al, he'll help you get a pair of your own.
And lastly, what are Anonymous's thoughts on the intitial subject at hand?
Oh, so that was Ralph that I saw the other day in Santa Paula, sitting next to the freeway off ramp, holding a sign that said, "DESPERATE, PLEASE HELP. NEED FERTILIZER!!!"
Gentlemen, I was back in the Ohio Swelterland enjoying my high school class reunion, so I missed the exchange on this topic. However, after witnessing the continuation of the "Cart Path Lie" discussion, I have something to contribute.
Last evening's meeting (9/05/06)had several more ideas come forth, so it looks like we are on the way to an agreeable resolution.
I took the opportunity to write down some of my own thoughts for Tom Calvin / Doug Whitney / Will Corona / Mike Toler to review on the 'play-it-as-it-lies' debate.
I suggest we tackle the conditions in two situtations:
Weekly Skins Game RULES.
1. Anywhere on the course your ball comes to rest on a poor playing surface, excluding man-made surfaces and objects (as defined by the Rules of Golf), then you can either (a) 'play-it-as-it-lies', or (b) declare it an 'unplayble lie' and take an appropriate, by-the-book "drop" and incur the 1-stroke penalty.
2. Record/document these occurances (where your ball came to rest on a less-than-acceptable surface), in detail, on a page of note paper and place them in the Comment Box for the Men's Club Committee to review.
Tournament RULES.
1. The Superintendant & the Committee Members will prep the course pre-tournament, marking ALL of the major poor conditions areas as "Ground Under Repiar" with the appropriate marking system.
2. All of the MARKED areas will be detailed on a 'Tournament RULES Sheet' that will be read & SIGNED by ALL Tournament Particiapants.
Those are my thoughts on this subject. Please comment freely on what I have proposed.
Peter has returned!
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